tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11124017.post115766795289338447..comments2023-03-30T06:09:00.211-07:00Comments on a whole nother blog: off the recordjollybeggarhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03795539157694277977noreply@blogger.comBlogger29125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11124017.post-1159848299351713992006-10-02T21:04:00.000-07:002006-10-02T21:04:00.000-07:00"there are some tears the bureaucrat cannot see"ho..."there are some tears the bureaucrat cannot see"<BR/><BR/>holy smokes! great soundbyte... as is the phrase "applied love"<BR/><BR/>you know what? i have been thinking about this for a long time: people often define certain commonly used words differently. the usage works, but carries with it multiple meanings. <BR/><BR/>so which is more important to communication- the message sent or the message received?<BR/><BR/>trick question, of course. <BR/>in my view, both are of equal importance.jollybeggarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03795539157694277977noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11124017.post-1159843242330587892006-10-02T19:40:00.000-07:002006-10-02T19:40:00.000-07:00H, i look at my comments and man, it's really just...H, i look at my comments and man, it's really just a matter of the season i'm in right now. my experience really was eye-opening...having a hard-work ethic vs. fitting into your 'work description' and the two didn't always mix.<BR/><BR/>jollybeggar's posting of 'acrobat' was actually pretty timely in this post...it speaks heavily about living in today's society...living in general.<BR/><BR/>those words, mixed with the fact that love is truly the bottom line in justice and life. this passage speaks a lot of truth...makes me check myself at the door, knowing i need to be daily living with love in the centre of all things...<BR/><BR/>"If I speak with human eloquence and angelic ecstasy but don't love, I'm nothing but the creaking of a rusty gate. If I speak God's Word with power, revealing all his mysteries and making everything plain as day, and if I have faith that says to a mountain, "Jump," and it jumps, but I don't love, I'm nothing. If I give everything I own to the poor and even go to the stake to be burned as a martyr, but I don't love, I've gotten nowhere. So, no matter what I say, what I believe, and what I do, I'm bankrupt without love. <BR/><BR/>Love never gives up. Love cares more for others than for self. Love doesn't want what it doesn't have. Love doesn't strut, doesn't have a swelled head, doesn't force itself on others, isn't always "me first," Doesn't fly off the handle, doesn't keep score of the sins of others, doesn't revel when others grovel, takes pleasure in the flowering of truth, puts up with anything, trusts God always, <BR/>always looks for the best, never looks back, but keeps going to the end. (1 Corinthians 13:1-7)Cinderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15015361230897796116noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11124017.post-1159838854644482272006-10-02T18:27:00.000-07:002006-10-02T18:27:00.000-07:00after giving a lecture on his philosophy Emmanuel ...after giving a lecture on his philosophy Emmanuel Levinas accepted questions for the audience and in his answer to one of the questions he made the statement that "there are some tears the bureaucrat cannot see". I think this is very applicable for our conversation.<BR/><BR/>Levinas is not saying that bureaucrats are bad people, not at all. I think what he is getting at is that when we operate from inside an institution, when we are the hands of that institution, there are just certain things we are not able to do, certain options we can't see. Whether this is because of mandates, regulations or guidelines, or scope of practice we will find ourselves limited in our possible responses and these limits will necessarily exclude people with certain needs that confront us.<BR/><BR/>Cinder, I'm sorry you had such a bad experiance, some of my worst experiences have also been occupying a certain position that made me unable to offer what seemed to be needed in a situation without "giving it all away", without breaking all the rules.<BR/><BR/>It seems that maybe another posting on justice might be in order as we seem to be struggling with trying to apply love.hineinihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14086065540681098283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11124017.post-1159832529090843612006-10-02T16:42:00.000-07:002006-10-02T16:42:00.000-07:00"the other day a friend of mine was telling me of ..."the other day a friend of mine was telling me of his frustration with social services and the fact that people become 'files' piled up on someone's desk, rather than actual faces and names of human beings in need...i wonder how the overloaded case worker who swims through those files as quickly as due process will allow feels about this assessment of his or her work." (jb)<BR/><BR/>that's a loaded quote. you know, i worked for what was known as the 'slowest' department in the government and because of that job, i never want to be employed by most 'institutions' ever again. you were looked down on (by both the institution and the public eyes) if you went slower and actually put faces with the work, showed proper people skills, but if you worked too hard, you were looked down on for working your ass off. i'm not saying i won't 'do life' with the people who work there, it'll just be after work hours and outside of the 'institution'.<BR/><BR/>"when love calls (me) to give, then (i) must give. when love calls (me) to go, (i) must go. when love calls (me) to speak, (i) must speak and when love calls (me) to be silent then (i) must be silent. if love is at the centre of justice, then the justice will be true." (jb)<BR/><BR/>that is the underlying answer, but sometimes things are easier to speak than to act out on a day-to-day basis...at least for me that seems to be sad truth.Cinderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15015361230897796116noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11124017.post-1159829084520861122006-10-02T15:44:00.000-07:002006-10-02T15:44:00.000-07:00H says "the insitution doesn't have a face, the ba...H says "the insitution doesn't have a face, the basis for relationship. Individuals interact with insitutions daily and often suffer under their facelessness whether thats wal-mart, the pentegon, corrections canada or the bank."<BR/><BR/>nice. i've gotta find a copy of that levinas book so i can digest it properly! i can hear his voice behind your words...<BR/><BR/>(on an aside, i wonder if there is any chance that people will hear Jesus' voice behind my words? there is this strange role play that i think you alluded to once in an email where we have difficulty deciding who is the Jesus figure in any relational interaction. regularly we are goaded with the question 'what would Jesus do?' yet on the other hand, matthew 25 reminds us that the one in need is Jesus... yeah, that's a tangent)<BR/><BR/>the other day a friend of mine was telling me of his frustration with social services and the fact that people become 'files' piled up on someone's desk, rather than actual faces and names of human beings in need.<BR/><BR/>i wonder how the overloaded case worker who swims through those files as quickly as due process will allow feels about this assessment of his or her work. <BR/><BR/>the frustrating thing is that, rich as we are as a country, economics and bureaucracy (two 'entities' that are very real, but incredibly abstract and completely faceless) seem to be increasingly successful at robbing everyone here of their ability to perceive the face of the other... all in the name of right-thinking fiscal responsibility. <BR/><BR/>perhaps the only solution to the fissures that seem to exist between people is to enact love and grace as practically as we can in service of the other. to be a loving neighbour. <BR/><BR/>when love calls (me) to give, then (i) must give. when love calls (me) to go, (i) must go. when love calls (me) to speak, (i) must speak and when love calls (me) to be silent then (i) must be silent.<BR/><BR/>if love is at the centre of justice, then the justice will be true. however, if the activity is driven by anything but love, i'm not sure it is justice- don't know what it is, though... perhaps simply philanthropy? philantherapy?<BR/><BR/>***<BR/>VITO CORLEONE <BR/>We've known each other many years, but this is the first time you came to me for counsel, for help. I can't remember the last time that you invited me to your house for a cup of coffee, even though my wife is godmother to your only child. But let's be frank here: you never wanted my friendship. And uh, you were afraid to be in my debt. <BR/><BR/>BONASERA <BR/>I didn't want to get into trouble. <BR/><BR/>VITO CORLEONE <BR/>I understand. You found paradise in America, had a good trade, made a good living. The police protected you; and there were courts of law. And you didn't need a friend of me. But uh, now you come to me and you say -- "Don Corleone give me justice." -- But you don't ask with respect. You don't offer friendship. You don't even think to call me Godfather. Instead, you come into my house on the day my daughter is to be married, and you uh ask me to do murder, for money. <BR/><BR/>BONASERA <BR/>I ask you for justice. <BR/><BR/>VITO CORLEONE <BR/>That is not justice; your daughter is still alive. <BR/><BR/>BONASERA <BR/>Then they can suffer then, as she suffers... How much shall I pay you? <BR/><BR/>VITO CORLEONE (stands, turning his back toward Bonasera) <BR/>Bonasera... Bonasera... What have I ever done to make you treat me so disrespectfully? Had you come to me in friendship, then this scum that ruined your daughter would be suffering this very day. And that by chance if an honest man such as yourself should make enemies,then they would become my enemies. And then they would fear you. <BR/><BR/>BONASERA <BR/>Be my friend -- <BR/>(then, after bowing and the Don shrugs) <BR/>-- Godfather? <BR/><BR/>VITO CORLEONE (after Bonasera kisses his hand) <BR/>Good... Some day, and that day may never come, I'll call upon you to do a service for me. But uh, until that day -- accept this justice as a gift on my daughter's wedding day.jollybeggarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03795539157694277977noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11124017.post-1159828195605984682006-10-02T15:29:00.000-07:002006-10-02T15:29:00.000-07:00Again I agree with Heinini, then again my faith to...Again I agree with Heinini, then again my faith tosses likes the waves of the sea.SocietyVshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10892870801259282254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11124017.post-1159818755410611622006-10-02T12:52:00.000-07:002006-10-02T12:52:00.000-07:00I'm not really sure what I'm hearing so corect me ...I'm not really sure what I'm hearing so corect me if this is wrong but are being encoraged to pursue "relational truth" because other things don't matter? I think I agree with this in part but the problem is that when my friend "jim" goes to social services for his daily $8.37 and asks for enough to buy a daily bus pass he is told "no, you get $8.37 a day". Its true that a person hands him the cash but its not the person who says "no" its the institution, and the insitution doesn't have a face, the basis for relationship. Individuals interact with insitutions daily and often suffer under their facelessness whether thats wal-mart, the pentegon, corrections canada or the bank.<BR/><BR/>If I did not critically engage in opposition and challenge to this/these instituion(s) then I lose something of the "relational truth" I can recieve from my friend. I don't boycott wal-mart or criticize evangleicalism at the expense of the relationship with my neighbour, I boycott and criticize because of that relationship with my neighbour. <BR/><BR/>The "Free Hug" video is a telling example. The personal relationships being developed were threatened by structural opposition and instead of packing up his sign a pettition was started. The effect of the petition was that the relationships could continue to be fostered and NEW! relationships could be forged (the security guards) that would have been impossible before.hineinihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14086065540681098283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11124017.post-1159815594842894882006-10-02T11:59:00.000-07:002006-10-02T11:59:00.000-07:00a quick note to a friend:(whether it relates direc...a quick note to a friend:<BR/>(whether it relates directly to this discussion or not is of no consequence- apply or ignore at will)<BR/>***<BR/><BR/>ask me what my favourite u2 song is... go on.<BR/><BR/>although they've written so many, the usual stuff is found on one of the two 'hits' discs.<BR/><BR/>nope, not mine.<BR/><BR/>my favourite is 'acrobat' off of achtung baby. i often quote it or refer to it. it carries the truth about many things in a musically dramatic, albeit small, package.<BR/><BR/>so don't let the bastards drag you down, man. it is not the people who have your heart's PIN number... it's those damned sellouts that still hang around because either there's not enough herds of pigs around or because we've already asked Jesus to leave the region.<BR/><BR/>legion was a victim- he was flesh and blood like you and me.<BR/>***<BR/><BR/>Don't believe what you hear, don't believe what you see<BR/>If you just close your eyes you can feel the enemy.<BR/>When I first met you girl, you had fire in your soul.<BR/>What happened t'your face of melting snow<BR/>Now it looks like this!<BR/>And you can swallow or you can spit<BR/>You can throw it up, or choke on it<BR/>And you can dream, so dream out loud<BR/>You know that your time is coming round<BR/>So don't let the bastards grind you down.<BR/><BR/>No, nothing makes sense, nothing seems to fit.<BR/>I know you'd hit out if you only knew who to hit.<BR/>And I'd join the movement <BR/>If there was one I could believe in<BR/>Yeah, I'd break bread and wine <BR/>If there was a church I could receive in.<BR/>'Cause I need it now.<BR/>To take the cup<BR/>To fill it up, to drink it slow.<BR/>I can't let you go.<BR/><BR/>And I must be an acrobat<BR/>To talk like this and act like that.<BR/>And you can dream, so dream out loud<BR/>And don't let the bastards grind you down.<BR/><BR/>What are we going to do now it's all been said?<BR/>No new ideas in the house, and every book's been read.<BR/><BR/>And I must be an acrobat<BR/>To talk like this and act like that.<BR/>And you can dream, so dream out loud<BR/>And you can find your own way out.<BR/>And you can build, and I can will<BR/>And you can call, I can't wait until<BR/>You can stash and you can seize<BR/>In dreams begin responsibilities<BR/>And I can love, and I can love<BR/>And I know that the tide is turning 'round<BR/>So don't let the bastards grind you down.jollybeggarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03795539157694277977noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11124017.post-1159763637874521332006-10-01T21:33:00.000-07:002006-10-01T21:33:00.000-07:00"I see nothing wrong with raiding questions or eve..."I see nothing wrong with raiding questions or even disagreeing."<BR/><BR/>nope- totally there with you. to question is to verify that there is grey matter activity, yeah? <BR/><BR/>i think that there is a difference between creating a critical environment (condusive to open discourse and the free exploration of varying and differing points of view) and just being cynical. basic cynicism is too easy- my struggle is to see hope without being blind to the pain and disparity that seem to be everywhere.<BR/>***<BR/><BR/>by the way- huge thanks, H, for providing me with that great quote about wal-mart boycotts being a luxury that only the rich can afford. tossed that one into my talk this morning at church as we looked briefly at maslow's hierarchy of needs...jollybeggarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03795539157694277977noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11124017.post-1159762567287187142006-10-01T21:16:00.000-07:002006-10-01T21:16:00.000-07:00"okay, i've got a bit of guilt here because i thin..."okay, i've got a bit of guilt here because i think that i opened the door to something evil" (JB)<BR/><BR/>What evil exactly? I am not sure I follow the dialogue? Is it because we questioned Wal-Mart? Is it because we questioned Evangelicalism? I see nothing wrong with raiding questions or even disagreeing. <BR/><BR/>"we have these defaults which apply to 'types of' individuals or institutions that are easier/more convenient/whatever to subscribe to than relational truth... this is also why it's possible someone to hate wal-mart and love the wal-mart greeter! LOL" (JB)<BR/><BR/>I get the point and agree 100% with the idea the individual is important and not so much the corporate entity. That being said, to turn our eyes away from things 'wrong' with business or the mainstream church is also irresponsible. Not saying nothing about the individual but about the system, 2 different things but I see the need to change things...on both big business & mainstream church. It doesn't mean judging the individual who participate in whatever I may not agree with, I still care about them but I think it's also worth addressing the problem with systems. <BR/><BR/>The hug campaign thing I don't really understand, it's an absolutely nice gesture and I think reaching people on a personal level is of huge importance (if that was the point of the video link). I think it is 2 different things when discussing relations and structures, and maybe I am wrong...maybe the change is coming from the individual.SocietyVshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10892870801259282254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11124017.post-1159751612279820552006-10-01T18:13:00.000-07:002006-10-01T18:13:00.000-07:00we are so blessed in this part of the world...yet ...we are so blessed in this part of the world...yet it seems like we daily take it for granted. the start of that video speaks volumes...society is so busy that even though we might have the time to stop and be there for someone, we often don't.<BR/><BR/>instead of banding together and working together to be a unified people who goes out...to be there for those in need, to love them, walk alongside them. instead of that, we waste our energy fighting and disagreeing amongst each other, focusing on stuff that's really not as important as we make it out to be...i'm guilty of this on a daily basis.<BR/><BR/>"whether it is because we're ridiculously rich and brutally bored or what, i'm not sure..."<BR/><BR/>i'm not sure either, but i know that i want to change my course to things that are more important and really do require the weight and devotion...that though is a whole lot easier said than done.Cinderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15015361230897796116noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11124017.post-1159747616923466372006-10-01T17:06:00.000-07:002006-10-01T17:06:00.000-07:00H says: "Maybe evangelicalism has nothing to offer...H says: "Maybe evangelicalism has nothing to offer these situations, who knows."<BR/><BR/>SVS says: "evangelicalism is becoming a dry well with no real insight into the human condition anymore"<BR/><BR/>okay, i've got a bit of guilt here because i think that i opened the door to something evil. it probably began when i, at the beginning of this post, mentioned two issues that seem to get (among many many others) evangelical pastors worked into a lather. suddenly there is this big annoyingass moon moving in to eclipse the light of grace that i was trying to share. <BR/><BR/>dang- and i put it there, didn't i? <BR/>sorry everybody- my bad.<BR/><BR/>i think that, once again, we're painting ornately carved objects with one great big brush. this is, i believe, what stevew was talking about in his own comments above. we have these defaults which apply to 'types of' individuals or institutions that are easier/more convenient/whatever to subscribe to than relational truth... this is also why it's possible someone to hate wal-mart and love the wal-mart greeter! LOL<BR/><BR/>i have no idea why these two 'issues' seem to inspire such polarity among so many (particularly between those from more conservative theosophical traditions and those from more liberal ones). however, to treat glibly issues that seem to be so effective at drawing lines between people is to miss their true social value, i think. <BR/><BR/>although my initial comments in this post were made with a smirk, the reality is that in this part of the world (whether it is because we're ridiculously rich and brutally bored or what, i'm not sure... probably a whole nother blog) they do carry with them some pretty heavy weight, whether the weight lifters are evangelical pastors or whomever...<BR/><BR/>so for starters, let's try this. then we'll just see where it goes from there:<BR/><BR/>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vr3x_RRJdd4jollybeggarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03795539157694277977noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11124017.post-1159648039582948072006-09-30T13:27:00.000-07:002006-09-30T13:27:00.000-07:00He's a great man this Hineini, he recognizes thing...He's a great man this Hineini, he recognizes things from a more grander scope that it plays on society, one of the signs of a prophet. Read the prophets of old and you'll see they didn't speak to 'an individual', they addresses a nation.SocietyVshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10892870801259282254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11124017.post-1159581755304946872006-09-29T19:02:00.000-07:002006-09-29T19:02:00.000-07:00"Hineini, man that's right up my alley..."see, i k..."Hineini, man that's right up my alley..."<BR/><BR/>see, i knew you two needed to meet each other. SVS meet H...jollybeggarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03795539157694277977noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11124017.post-1159573114377368812006-09-29T16:38:00.000-07:002006-09-29T16:38:00.000-07:00Hineini, man that's right up my alley...evangelica...Hineini, man that's right up my alley...evangelicalism is becoming a dry well with no real insight into the human condition anymore, it seems more important to talk about the homesexuality issue while right-wing evangelicals back a war of colonialistic efforts (out of America)...it truly is a sad time for the Christian faith, when we partner with poltics to our ignorance.SocietyVshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10892870801259282254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11124017.post-1159571101842043422006-09-29T16:05:00.000-07:002006-09-29T16:05:00.000-07:00I always try to remember that boycotting wal-mart ...I always try to remember that boycotting wal-mart and many other "activisms/political actions" are a luxery for those of us with too much money. I can afford to spend more for chips, clothing and whatever else one would buy at wal-mart. There are many who save enough money shopping at wal-mart to be able to pay rent at the end of the month, and maybe some groceries.<BR/><BR/>as an aside, the fact that worship music and homosexuality "light up the phone lines" amongst evangelical pastors sounds ridiculous to me given the situations in Sudan, Iraq, Palestine etc.(this list is so long I better stop with just three). Maybe evangelicalism has nothing to offer these situations, who knows.hineinihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14086065540681098283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11124017.post-1159562168261188922006-09-29T13:36:00.000-07:002006-09-29T13:36:00.000-07:00LOLyeah- everyone wants to boycott wal-mart for so...LOL<BR/>yeah- everyone wants to boycott wal-mart for something...<BR/><BR/>until they run out of mix at 9:55 on a saturday night- suddenly it's integrity dilemma time.<BR/><BR/>still, always nice to be leaving with a couple giant bottles of coke, some chips and a $6.88 copy of 'three amigos' from the delete bin, hearing a voice from behind me calling 'goodnight, jolly' before the lights go out.<BR/>***<BR/><BR/>all glibness aside, thanks for your comment hineini. i thought similar things when i read the original dialogue:<BR/><BR/>'what, you mean you haven't already boycotted walmart for something else?'<BR/><BR/>so the big question is, how does this place stay open if no one shops there?<BR/><BR/>perhaps this is where we scroll back to the top of my comment and try again:<BR/><BR/>LOL<BR/>yeah- everyone wants to boycott wal-mart for something...jollybeggarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03795539157694277977noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11124017.post-1159551923959738202006-09-29T10:45:00.000-07:002006-09-29T10:45:00.000-07:00hineini, I boycott Wal-Mart for the same reasons a...hineini, I boycott Wal-Mart for the same reasons also, and I thought the exact same thing when I read that part on this blog.SocietyVshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10892870801259282254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11124017.post-1159551716632223772006-09-29T10:41:00.000-07:002006-09-29T10:41:00.000-07:00Shitty! Now my Wal-mart boycott is going to be mis...Shitty! Now my Wal-mart boycott is going to be misinterpreted as hate of the homosexual community rather than hate of the greed that exploits foreign slave labour, maintains unjust labour practices, props up the military industrial complex and cripples local communities by leeching out resources, to name just a few symptoms.hineinihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14086065540681098283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11124017.post-1159460901238290922006-09-28T09:28:00.000-07:002006-09-28T09:28:00.000-07:00in my view, we are all growing from knowing each o...in my view, we are all growing from knowing each other, right? i'm sure glad that this post made some sense...<BR/><BR/>shalomjollybeggarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03795539157694277977noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11124017.post-1159460061059331362006-09-28T09:14:00.000-07:002006-09-28T09:14:00.000-07:00JB,I haven't been here before. I love your discuss...JB,<BR/><BR/>I haven't been here before. I love your discussion with WG.<BR/><BR/>I don't go to church. One of the things that caused me to leave was a self-righteous pastor who quickly passed judgment on a hungry person who asked us for help because "he appeared to be gay and living in sin with his roommate". Of course it goes a lot deeper than that.<BR/><BR/>But what you have said here hits me right between the eyes. In my disgust with much of the clergy, especially the evangelical fundamentalist variety, I can often be just as prejudiced as the next hypocrite.<BR/><BR/>Of course my inclusionary beliefs also help to get me in trouble with many clergy....and maybe that only adds to the tension that exists between us. So be it. I just generaaly stay away from them.<BR/><BR/>But anyway, I appreciate your attitude and though we may be on different journeys I sense that you are a fair minded and up-front type guy and just wanted to commend you for that and thank you for motivating me to be aware that I might be wise to see if Father wants to do a little more work on my own prejudices.SteveWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11297300421121106669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11124017.post-1159245156818021332006-09-25T21:32:00.000-07:002006-09-25T21:32:00.000-07:00The Beatles - Rocky Raccoon...awesome, I listen to...The Beatles - Rocky Raccoon...awesome, I listen to that every other day at work.SocietyVshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10892870801259282254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11124017.post-1159226169120683892006-09-25T16:16:00.000-07:002006-09-25T16:16:00.000-07:00Celibacy and The Old and New Testaments in Gideon'...Celibacy and The Old and New Testaments in Gideon's Bible:<BR/><BR/>Now Rocky Raccoon he fell back in his room<BR/><BR/>Only to find gideons bible<BR/><BR/>Gideon checked out and he left it no doubt<BR/><BR/>To help with good rockys revivalmarcythewhorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10712351924255897630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11124017.post-1159219327867164792006-09-25T14:22:00.000-07:002006-09-25T14:22:00.000-07:00"your cheque is in the mail""i gave at the office"..."your cheque is in the mail"<BR/>"i gave at the office"<BR/>?jollybeggarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03795539157694277977noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11124017.post-1159199430699108672006-09-25T08:50:00.000-07:002006-09-25T08:50:00.000-07:00What are the other two great lies?What are the other two great lies?SocietyVshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10892870801259282254noreply@blogger.com