Wednesday, November 22, 2006

rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty



















when does one cross the line that apparently separates valuable discourse from foolishness? like that fine line that exists between the person at the party who is really interesting and funny after a couple of beers and that same person just one beer too many...

so speaking of wry smiles-

i smile wryly when i read pilate's words in john 18:
"What is truth?" (John 18.38)
nietzsche couldn't have said it better!

and the part in colossians 2 about pointless logic and theosophying...
"See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ." (Colossians 2.8)

a couple of days ago, this little devotional by chucky spurgeon on titus 3.9 went out over the free methodist church in canada's listserve... i read it and decided to just copy and paste it, rather than trying to decide if someone else was feeling that things can get pretty maudlin on blogs and listserves, and had posted it as a reminder to keep our feet on the ground.
***

“Avoid foolish questions.” Titus 3:9

Our days are few, and are far better spent in doing good, than in disputing over matters which are, at best, of minor importance.

The old schoolmen did a world of mischief by their incessant discussion of subjects of no practical importance; and our Churches suffer much from petty wars over abstruse points and unimportant questions. After everything has been said that can be said, neither party is any the wiser, and therefore the discussion no more promotes knowledge than love, and it is foolish to sow in so barren a field.

Questions upon points wherein Scripture is silent; upon mysteries which belong to God alone; upon prophecies of doubtful interpretation; and upon mere modes of observing human ceremonials, are all foolish, and wise men avoid them. Our business is neither to ask nor answer foolish questions, but to avoid them altogether; and if we observe the apostle’s precept (Titus 3:8) to be careful to maintain good works, we shall find ourselves far too much occupied with profitable business to take much interest in unworthy, contentious, and needless strivings.

There are, however, some questions which are the reverse of foolish, which we must not avoid, but fairly and honestly meet, such as these: Do I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ? Am I renewed in the spirit of my mind? Am I walking not after the flesh, but after the Spirit? Am I growing in grace? Does my conversation adorn the doctrine of God my Saviour? Am I looking for the coming of the Lord, and watching as a servant should do who expects his master? What more can I do for Jesus?


Such enquiries as these urgently demand our attention; and if we have been at all given to cavilling, let us now turn our critical abilities to a service so much more profitable. Let us be peace-makers, and endeavour to lead others both by our precept and example, to “avoid foolish questions.”
(Charles Spurgeon)

***
honestly, i think that i'm just kinda tired of blogging. i'm glad that so many are keeping the fires burning around here because lately i haven't been interested in typing anything... there's just too much going on around me that i am taking part in which requires the time that it takes for me to write anything even mildly useful. at best, i get thinking in silly circles like dougie adams' majikthise and vroomfondel, knowing full well that there is work to be done that i'm not attending to in the meantime.

so that's it for me for awhile. i'll check back in from time to time to see who's left the porchlight on for some late-night java...

keep the faith
-jollybeggar

***

"O Deep Thought Computer," he said, "the task we have designed you to perform is this. We want you to tell us ..." he paused, "... the Answer!"

"The answer?" said Deep Thought. "The answer to what?"

"Life!" urged Fook.

"The Universe!" said Lunkwill.

"Everything!" they said in chorus.

Deep Thought paused for a moment's reflection.

"Tricky," he said finally.

"But can you do it?"

Again, a significant pause.

"Yes," said Deep Thought, "I can do it."

"There is an answer?" said Fook with breathless excitement."

"A simple answer?" added Lunkwill.

"Yes," said Deep Thought. "Life, the Universe, and Everything. There is an answer. But," he added, "I'll have to think about it."

A sudden commotion destroyed the moment: the door flew open and two angry men wearing the coarse faded-blue robes and belts of the Cruxwan University burst into the room, thrusting aside the ineffectual flunkies who tried to bar their way.

"We demand admission!" shouted the younger of the two men elbowing a pretty young secretary in the throat.

"Come on," shouted the older one, "you can't keep us out!" He pushed a junior programmer back through the door.

"We demand that you can't keep us out!" bawled the younger one, though he was now firmly inside the room and no further attempts were being made to stop him.

"Who are you?" said Lunkwill, rising angrily from his seat. "What do you want?"

"I am Majikthise!" announced the older one.

"And I demand that I am Vroomfondel!" shouted the younger one.

Majikthise turned on Vroomfondel. "It's alright," he explained angrily, "you don't need to demand that."

"Alright!" bawled Vroomfondel banging on an nearby desk. "I am Vroomfondel, and that is not a demand, that is a solid fact! What we demand is solid facts!"

"No we don't!" exclaimed Majikthise in irritation. "That is precisely what we don't demand!"

Scarcely pausing for breath, Vroomfondel shouted, "We don't demand solid facts! What we demand is a total absence of solid facts. I demand that I may or may not be Vroomfondel!"

"But who the devil are you?" exclaimed an outraged Fook.

"We," said Majikthise, "are Philosophers."

"Though we may not be," said Vroomfondel waving a warning finger at the programmers.

"Yes we are," insisted Majikthise. "We are quite definitely here as representatives of the Amalgamated Union of Philosophers, Sages, Luminaries and Other Thinking Persons, and we want this machine off, and we want it off now!"

"What's the problem?" said Lunkwill.

"I'll tell you what the problem is mate," said Majikthise, "demarcation, that's the problem!"

"We demand," yelled Vroomfondel, "that demarcation may or may not be the problem!"

"You just let the machines get on with the adding up," warned Majikthise, "and
we'll take care of the eternal verities thank you very much. You want to check your legal position you do mate. Under law the Quest for Ultimate Truth is quite clearly the inalienable prerogative of your working thinkers. Any bloody machine goes and actually finds it and we're straight out of a job aren't we? I mean what's the use of our sitting up half the night arguing that there may or may not be a God if this machine only goes and gives us his bleeding phone number the next morning?"

"That's right!" shouted Vroomfondel,
"we demand rigidly defined areas of
doubt and uncertainty!"

(Douglas Adams- Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy;

cited at http://flag.blackened.net/dinsdale/dna/book1.html)

Labels: , , ,

33 Comments:

Blogger curious servant said...

This past year I have had some good friends, standing firmluyy on prioncipals they hold dear, leave our church.

The issue?

Two women have been elected to the governing board, an entity which oversees the budget, has final say on the hiring of staff, and pays the bills.

I haved a passion for science. I have grave reservations over the issue of creationsim. But I keep my mouth shut... because it is a non-issue. In speaking my thoughts about faith, science, and creation, I might shake someone else's faith. I only speak of such things when I meet someone who feels torn about how those of faith often attack science.

I'm not seeking to discuss the topic here. What I am saying is that there are many issues that really are not worthy of heated debate. They will wait just fine for eternity to answer them.

All that matters is that Jesus Christ is fully God, fully human, came to stand in my stead, and has paid my ransom.

Happy Thanksgiving!

11/23/2006  
Blogger hineini said...

I am always amazed how quick we are to define and limit the "important" questions for everyone around us, dictating just what others should think about and speak about, especially when it comes to their personal faith. That is not to say that every conversation going on is one I should take part in but there are few strategies as effective for maintaining power than to declare certain areas or avenues of knowledge "off-limits". If Charles Spurgeon doesn't feel he needs to explore certain ideas or experiances thats fine. It strikes me as irresponsible however to disregard and denegrate enquiry. Doesn't history often seem to demonstrate that continued dialogue and receptivity to the voices from the margin brings about emancipation and renewed vision?
"The old schoolmen did a world of mischief by their incessant discussion of subjects of no practical importance" (Spurgeon) These "old schoolmen" are often the ones challenging the status quo and comming up with innovative alternatives to systems or forces that cause suffering. Martin Luther was told to cease his questioning and if he had Charles Spurgeon's life would look very different. The rhetoric of the establishment never ceases to amaze me when it starts to feel threatened.

11/24/2006  
Blogger jollybeggar said...

"how quick we are to define and limit the "important" questions for everyone around us, dictating just what others should think about and speak about, especially when it comes to their personal faith." (hineini)

well, for me, i just know that i can fall prey to all kinds of intellectual distractions that, while inspiring and stimulating and all that, don't actually result in greater involvement in the life of the other...

not speaking for the 'establishment' here... mainly just trying to articulate (yes, by borrowing the words of others) how much trouble i'm having maintaining any kind of balance these days.

i love your statement: "Martin Luther was told to cease his questioning and if he had Charles Spurgeon's life would look very different."

nice... did you every see the film 'luther'? curious as to your spin on it.

11/25/2006  
Blogger hineini said...

In my opinion, a far wiser thing for Spurgeon to say would have been to encourage everyone to be thoughtful of the dialectics they are a part of, of the questions they are asking, of the enquiries they are pursuing. Instead what I heard was a re-iteration of the continued "anti-intellectual" attitude of many evangelical churches, specifically when it comes to philosophy or other academic pursuits. I'm sure scholars in science would say the same. It takes just a small amount of effort in research to find a great number of advances in things like textual translation and interpretation, historical exploration, theological development amongst others to see just what a boon philosophy has been for Christianity. I wonder what Mr. Spurgeon would feel like if people started to call his vocation "of no practical importance" at best or stooped so low as to hurl "petty", "obtruse" or maybe even "mischief" at him and his calling.

11/25/2006  
Blogger SocietyVs said...

Interesting convo, but I think I have to side with Heinini here, intellectual pursuit is a gift from God in so much as we have been given the gift to think/rationalize/interpret. Not all conversations lead to greater freedom in our faith but we never know what someone else gets out of the convo (we pre-suppose they would only get bad things - we really don't know).

I find the pursuit for intellectual thought is the key to making the church a better, more wide open space for everyone to voice their true talents. I am not offended easily with all weird conversations and actually enjoy to learn from others something I have never considered before - whether questioning the faith or supporting it.

But I see the convo's that have to take place of the church is going to redefine itself for the coming years. Convo's need to take place on acceptance, forgiveness, the 'gay' issue, the 'other religions' issues, science, etc. To leave these things at the whim of every congregant without adequate discussion about them leads to severe issues having to be discussed: ex: Whatcott's 'gay bashing' literature, dis-trust for the Muslim people (even outright bigotry), judgement being greater then mercy, etc...some things need to fall and a good discussion panel of of people concerned about them need to start discussing them. I have always thought if the church could unite (city-wide) then we would have these discussions amongst denominations and clear up some mis-perceptions and get a standard we all could live by. But that's what convo and thinking exists for, to redefine some of the issues around us we always think about but never tackle.

11/27/2006  
Blogger Cinder said...

"not speaking for the 'establishment' here... mainly just trying to articulate (yes, by borrowing the words of others) how much trouble i'm having maintaining any kind of balance these days."

despite all the conversations going on here, this was the underlying point in the beginning, right? nothing to do with where the church stands, free will, freedom of speech, who's right or wrong.

speaking from my life...simply the fact that life gets insane sometimes and in order to find and eventually maintain balance, you might have to prioritize some things out of the equation for a 'short' or 'long' period of time.

11/27/2006  
Blogger jollybeggar said...

sides?
who said anything about sides?

not every convo is a conquest...

11/27/2006  
Blogger hineini said...

"not every convo is a conquest... " (jollybeggar)

I don't say Amen very often but I'm tempted here.

I also want to offer a sort of apology to Mr. Spurgeon if he were to happen by this blog. Sir, your wiser and much more learned than myself and so I should grant you a little more grace than my first (angry) response offered. I would hate to fall into what I was critical of by failing to realize the good of your own vocation and service to many. I would however plead you to examine what good is done by labelling academic inquiry (or anything for that matter) "foolish".

"Let us be peace-makers" (Spurgeon)

It is here then that I can agree and affirm our familial responsibility (Matt 12:48) to each other and offer what I can to encourage and respect you in your difference from myself. Coming with this responsibility is a certain necessity to act for the good of the family in encouraging you to cede your monopoly on the "important" questions and listen to your other siblings.

11/27/2006  
Blogger jollybeggar said...

well said, man.

there's noise in the amen corner.

my issue was that in all the talking that takes place on blogs and listserves, there is often very little listening... with all this exploration, there is very little discovery, it seems, because so many intellectual explorers seem to be more interested in rallying people around their own flag than actually taking that flag to new lands and sharing the faces represented by that flag with the inhabitants of the region.

i'm more interested in understanding than in agreement, and your words, hineini, have offered me hope and encouragement.

11/28/2006  
Blogger SocietyVs said...

I think there is a lot of listening going on in these blogs, not a lot of agreeance, but a lot of listening I would say I have seen. But I am labeled 'born 2 fight' for a reason, maybe I am hard-headed and I am a rare breed (or maybe we all are and I am not so rare). I think all convo's don't have to be argumentative (well obviously) but some are...and I don't get scared of other viewpoints no matter how vile they get, why? I guess I am open to losing as well.

11/29/2006  
Blogger jollybeggar said...

"I don't get scared of other viewpoints no matter how vile they get, why? I guess I am open to losing as well."

yes, i think i understand. thank you for clarifying your observations about the whole 'sides' thing, man.

i find it interesting that you have spoken much about the desire for unity and peace and have even been critical of those who freely toss about combative rhetoric, and yet there is still, embedded in your own stated perspective, this idea that there must needs be winners and losers when opinions differ. eventually it becomes adversary over advocacy.

can there be difference of opinion without debate? can there just be discussion, or will it always come down to which dog lets go of the bone first?

of greater interest to me, though is what happens to the identity of one 'born 2 fight' if that one suddenly decides to try not fighting and see how it goes?

well aren't i coming off like a pompous ass today? so much for the whole advocacy thing. apparently, when you spoke of your being a not-so-rare breed you spoke a mouthful! is there room for one more beggar around this burning barrel?

it's cold outside the fellowship of others.

11/29/2006  
Blogger curious servant said...

You tend to prompt a lot of dialogues in your post. I like that (mostly).

Just checking in on you.

Take care.

11/29/2006  
Blogger SocietyVs said...

"i find it interesting that you have spoken much about the desire for unity and peace and have even been critical of those who freely toss about combative rhetoric" (JB)

This is true of what I have said and I have been openly critical...this is no lie about me. I have taught there are adverserial points of view again this is true, and the winners/losers thing well I am apt to being wrong is what I meant - I have no problem with being just that - and I am (so in that 'wording' sense this is true). But you have to take your licks and move on.

"can there be difference of opinion without debate? can there just be discussion, or will it always come down to which dog lets go of the bone first?" (JB)

Obviously.

"of greater interest to me, though is what happens to the identity of one 'born 2 fight' if that one suddenly decides to try not fighting and see how it goes?" (JB)

That is a great and most interesting question - asking me to drop the moniker 'are we'? I am more than willing to drop it and actually don't live like by the name - but my words are spoken stronger than my ideas. My actual name goes back to nothing - I was actually named after the times of my birth (name of the day) and not after a single person from either family line. Which wouldn't be of issue to me but in looking around I saw something in my family - everyone else was except me (how weird is that?)...and I had 7 other siblings. So one day, while travelling and discussing Indian name, I realized I had none (but I wanted one) - then 'born 2 fight' came to me - it's not neccasarily a bad thing to be honest. I have fought to get where I am today and now again I find myself purging things for the essence of it. It's a better rap moniker than a chosen name.

"it's cold outside the fellowship of others" (JB)

It's cold outside in general, but I sense it will warm up.

11/29/2006  
Blogger jollybeggar said...

I Just Wanna Get Warm

The mouths of the best poets
Speak but a few words
And then lay down
Stone cold in forgotten fields
Life goes on in this ant farm town
Cold to the lifeblood underfoot
All talk and no touch
And I just wanna be real
I just wanna be real

The colors here are monochrome
Studies in one shade of grey
The good times and the hard times
Cut from the same grey cloth
And all the fires that crackle here
Consume but do not burn
All light and no heat
And I just wanna get warm
I just wanna get warm

The days they rattle past me
Like a tunnel round a train
Landscapes and heartaches
I don't know what I feel
All I know is my condition
Is worse than I can tell
The small talk and the slow burn
And I just wanna be healed
I just wanna get well

There are things I should remember
But I have forgotten how
I'm all tied up with no time
Trying do too much
And the thoughts that I've avoided
Are the ones I need right now
Like a warm wind and love's hand
And I just wanna be touched
And I just wanna be real
And I just wanna be well
And I just wanna be healed
And I just wanna be warm

Written by Mark Heard
© 1991 Ideola Music/ASCAP
***

mark heard died shortly after penning this song. man, i miss him some days. he has been an inspiration to me since i was a teenager because of his ability to articulate clearly and yet artfully some of the things that i've always felt lurking around in my own heart.

that's art... it's just what it does and (in my view) why God made it possible. like reason, judgement, empathy and a host of others, it is an endowment.

so who touches or speaks for you?

11/30/2006  
Blogger SocietyVs said...

"so who touches or speaks for you?" (JB)

I have always been akin to two authors, Steve Taylor and Keith Green. They seem to speak to me on levels I can relate to, one on the questioning department and the other in the compassion department - both have been prophets to me and from them I have derived the articulation of what I felt inside.

Outside of them I have always loved the works of Lennon and Dylan. Lennon is just so real in a world so un-real, voicing his thoughts on religion, poverty, love, and war. Dylan has been quite poetic and says some of the lines I wish I had thought up. They both address the society of their day and even speak out for it - in a sense they also both have played the prophetic role.

12/02/2006  
Blogger curious servant said...

Thank you for dropping by and letting me know how I can pray for you.

Just to weigh in on the above discussion about discourse, logic, philosophy... I thinnk most of what we say, most of what we think, is foolishness. My recent post ("Soot") is a good example. I am sure there are many out there who read it and did not commment because the do not agree with the theological implications of what I had to say. That was very kind of them.

Because in the end, almost all that I know, all that any of us know, is foolishness.

He gave us brains, minds, and we tend to play with them and feel superior because of them. All the ideas I come up with are simply playful past times.

All that really matters is our love for each other.

So, I can examine string theory, or disect the book of Genesis, or make theological interpretations on why the angels split from heaven.

But none of that matters when people are suffering, people are grieving.

I write what I write knowing that much of what I think is true is seen through the filter of my own limited senses filtered through my own perspective.

Bottom line: your nephew's family is in my prayers. I am at your service when you need it.

That is all that really counts.

12/05/2006  
Blogger jollybeggar said...

thanks for the bottom line.

12/05/2006  
Blogger hineini said...

"I thinnk most of what we say, most of what we think, is foolishness" (curious servant)

maybe statements like this should be spoken in reference to one's own words and thoughts. Nothing like labelling the people you address as fools especially if, as you rightly point out " people are suffering, people are grieving." (curious servant). This only adds insult to injury for those of us who are trying to struggle through serious issues in our own lives. I really don't see how pontifications that dismiss the concerns and thoughts of others and label those thoughts as foolish lead anywhere constructive.

As for offering something constructive, Levinas offers a different reading than the standard one when it comes to philosophy. Philosophy is often read as the love (philo) of wisdom (sophia) and as such there is obviously the danger of wisdom (our wisdom) taking priority over our neighbour. Levinas encourages instead a reading of philosophy as the wisdom (sophia) of love (philo). The wisdom of love is what comforts those who grieve or mourn, its what celebrates with those joyfully hopeful, it makes peace and encourages self-sacrifice because the priority is the destination of the love. In this way, philosophy is hopeful in making the changes that impact the concrete needs we encounter everyday and it enables us to honour the responsibility we have for the widow, orphan and stranger. Without thought there would be no action, we need to decide on the proper course of action to take, we need to think and yes speak to enable love, to give it hands. Not denial, naivete nor ignorance is going to help our neighbour, whatever their need.

12/05/2006  
Blogger curious servant said...

I am sorry you so clearly missed my point (I was probably not writing clearly enough). Perhaps if you had read the post I was referring to you would understand that the comment had nothing to do with what anyone here has said. It had to do with myself.

The point was exactly, directly, specifically targeted at myself in reference to a statement in the initial post which started this dialogue.

I am also sorry you are offended by what was truly meant as a gentle comment, which illustrates my point. You have taken offense. Please forgive me for my causing you such pain. It was not my intention in any way.

But this does illustrate my point. The rages of debate do more to hurt than to help. It's a I Corinthians 13 sort of thing.

I am also a little afraid that this very comment I am writing may cause you to think that I am attacking you. Please, dear fellow blogger, know that that also is not the case.

I understand very clearly the pains that people have in struggling with weighty issues, as is illustrated in my own blog (read my first-ever post).

Indeed, I seek to lay a balm upon you. These "weighty" issues are light tissues, things of really no substance, compared to the great solidity of the only truth that really matters.

God loves us.

When I set aside my desire, my need, to be right, and rest on the knowledge that I can never truly understand all that my Lord is showing me, I realize that all the things that are of any real import are easy, simple.

So... if you feel I am wrong... then I would agree, for I am probably more often wrong than I am right.

But if you feel that I take lightly the frustrations that you may feel in wrestling with weighty things, please, understand me, I know these things can be very important to people.

If one feels compassion, and love, and the desire to lend a hand, then the thoughts are probably truer than if the
one feels resentment, and anger, and the desire to strike back.

That is my Occam's razor.

If there is something I can specifically do for you to make ammends, please let me know my brother.

12/05/2006  
Blogger jollybeggar said...

"Levinas encourages instead a reading of philosophy as the wisdom (sophia) of love (philo)."

nice spin, mr levinas. makes a world of difference, i think.

now with regard to curious servant's comment earlier on, i think that we need to remember that there are two people involved in communication: the sender and the reciever. the weird stuff comes when we start presuming that the way we receive things is the way that they are sent.

in his book 'screwtape letters'-letters from a senior devil to a young and naive apprentice- cslewis explores this phenomenon in the context of domesticity...

(and, for the record, the word 'fools' is lewis' word and is meant in no way to be projected on any of my friends... interesting side note: why do we seem to need disclaimers sometimes? is it because we cannot see the face of the person who is speaking? who can say?)

"... the words are not offensive, but in such a voice or at such a moment that they are not far short of a blow in the face. to keep this game up, you and (another apprentice demon assigned to a related 'patient') must see to it that each of these two fools has a sort of double standard. your patient must demand that all his own utterances are to be taken at face value and judged simply on the actual words, while at the same time judging all of his mother's utterances with the fullest and most oversensitive interpretation of the tone and the context and the suspected intention..."

so let me offer my read on curious servant's comment: i heard a statement of humility and fellowship. i heard words of comfort free of judgement and condescension. i heard one stranger say to another 'all of it is meaningless, a chasing after the wind' (repeated seven times in ecclesiastes) in a public context.

art is a strange sort of invitation to loot. once a work of art is created and released from the abstraction of the artist's mind with its clear (albeit internal and in many cases completely subconscious) intentions into the physical realm, it becomes 'free stuff'... the artist relinquishes all control over the 'real meaning' of the work because art is emotive and its meanings are in response to it, not necessarily in line with the expressed or unexpressed intentions of the artist. although the context of the artist and his/her experience may be helpful in attempting to understand what the artist was intending, it is not necessary if one simply wants/needs to draw personal meaning from the arts expression.

words are language art.

now the thing about free will is that i can choose to receive the words offered in any way i find meaningful or helpful in my current experience. some days i'm better at that than others.

it is of value to carefully choose one's words when speaking/writing in order to communicate graciously and lovingly (lest we be clanging cymbals and resounding gongs, right?) but i am learning more and more that it is also of value to choose the meaning i take from the words of another graciously.

you know the really weird thing? i have come to know both hineini and curious servant over the last year or two, and two deeper, more gracious and earnest hearts i would be pressed to find.

bless you both, my friends.

12/06/2006  
Blogger jollybeggar said...

it occured to me as i was out shovelling canadian snow just now that stephen r. covey repackaged (or perhaps prepackaged something i just simply unwrapped) this idea with the following soundbyte:

"seek first to understand, then to be understood."

well, there's a project for the rest of my life...

12/06/2006  
Blogger curious servant said...

Thank you.

I hope Hineini will read my piece "Soot" to understand why I think that sometimes I feel I work too hard in being pithy, theological, and philospohical.

"All you need is love." -Lennon/McCartney

12/06/2006  
Blogger SocietyVs said...

(1) How can anyone be offended by Curious Servant? That's like saying ice cream tastes bad.

(2) Why is Heinini so enthralled with Levinas? That's like asking I don't want sprinkles with my ice cream.

(3) Why is ice cream a philosophy? That's like asking ice cream why are you fattening, yet taste so good.

I get at what Curious is saying and even Beggar (that nihilist or nee-hilist) is saying. Conversation doesn't always have to have some deep redemptive value, or conscious thought, or be about big book words Julian learned in grade 11. Conversation is God's gift to us of a voice sometimes and that is good enuff - even if I say 'cha' to someone's point.

I also get Heinini's point of view (which I am down with) that some deep thought and asking those deep questions and searching out those deep meanings to life aren't all that bad. Not everything is black n white (like the Kramer story), sometimes they come in shades in between (by this I mean brown). Sometimes black looks like brown, and sometimes white looks like black - it's crazy mized-up muddled world and we are just trying to sort through sh*t sometimes. I applaude deep thought, and Levina's we applaude you and gracefully bow down to your light - with our smaller more dim lights hoping to catch the embers that fall from your table. If only I may burn my tongue (I once asked).

What is this...an atrccity. I looked at words and they at me, I saw the intent they saw the meaning.

12/06/2006  
Blogger hineini said...

For me, self-revelation is an exciting moment. Finding out what makes me me has got to be one of the most difficult things that I attempt daily because attempts to appraoch it like I would when I pursue other ideas doesn't seem to work. My self-revelation always seems to show up unannounced and uninvited. Unannounced and uninvited is the beginning of hospitality though so I find myself in a good place.

All this is a preface to a hearty "Thank-you curious servant".

I have been curious from the very first time I fell into this post why I have been having the responses I do. Seeing Mr Spurgeon didn't respond, I guess I had to wait till curious servant's kind words turned my wrath for me to be able to see a bit clearer why I think the way I do.

And also a thank-you to societyvs for your kind words; "and Levina's we applaude you and gracefully bow down to your light - with our smaller more dim lights hoping to catch the embers that fall from your table"

I know he would be humbled and honoured by your sentiments and your words are fitting for the upcoming anniversary of his passing. Born in Lithuania in 1906, Levinas died December 25, 1995.

12/07/2006  
Blogger SocietyVs said...

Levina's died on Christmas, wow.

12/08/2006  
Blogger jollybeggar said...

ha ha- societyVs has turned into a haagen dazs rep not-so-cleverly disguised as a blogger. i see through your disguise and through your subliminal tricks... you won't get me breaking my diet this close to Christmas, no siree!

as for hearing from the good reverend spurgeon, unless anyone in the general vacinity is a medium, we'll just have to either google his name + a topic or buy reissues of his books from amazon.com- he passed away on january 31, 1892.

12/08/2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yummy ice cream, give into the darker sides of your consciousness.

12/09/2006  
Blogger Cinder said...

yummy ice cream indeed...

"you won't get me breaking my diet this close to Christmas, no siree!" (jb)

no diet plan is worth sticking to for ice cream...especially if it were to involve chocolate, haagen dazs...some things are worth the caving in!

12/10/2006  
Blogger curious servant said...

Well... if you aren't going to eat it... can I have yours?

12/12/2006  
Blogger greenleaf said...

Merry Christmas!

12/23/2006  
Blogger curious servant said...

Thank you for your kind words on my blog this morning. Very kind of you.

I have posted pics of the painting I worked on this morning.

Merry Christmas my friend.

Time has split, God has entered, and all is new again.

Merry Christmas.

12/24/2006  
Blogger SocietyVs said...

Has the beggar quit this blog? Will he return to fight crime once again? What will happen to all his foes if he doesn not return - will they lose heart without an adversary? Catch this on the next episose of Jolly Beggar's Epistles!

1/08/2007  
Blogger Cinder said...

"Has the beggar quit this blog?"

i thought that happened a couple months ago, but yet i continue to return...

1/08/2007  

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